Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Julian Bryant - Wednesday, 9 January 2008, 01:00 PM
When he was here last year, Robert Lepage posed the question as to why theatre wasn't as exciting as rock and roll. For someone with as varied a career as his, this is quite a statement.
Postmodernism is an attempt to explore how power structures in society and performance have shifted since the 60's, and rock is part of that shift. Even our ideas of culture - or Culture - have shifted since then.
You might want to research what people have said postmodernism is; how it relates to Theatre, and to Rock music.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Michelle Greer - Sunday, 13 January 2008, 07:22 PM
With regards to robert Lepage's comment, I ask you to consider what was theatre was orinally used for in Egyption times, theatre was seen as an act of religion and a bloody one at that. Where as we would re-created battles in todays theatre, battles were created back then and when the enemy was defeated the 'actor' would be sacrificed (hence the term needing extras)
So, how does this fit in with rock and roll, well after some thought on this i looked into cult theatre, (as a cult can be seen close to a religion) i found some amazing examples my favourite being "The Rock Horror Picture Show" certainly a rock and roll piece of theatre with the cult song "TimeWarp" making the music charts after its release on film a true rock and roll legendary song still remembered by most today even if they do not know the orgins of the song.
Finally, i conclude to "why theatre wasn't as exciting as rock and roll" well in my opinon i belive it is and will always be, as people will always want to be entertained either by theatre or music etc and people will always want a following whether it be people to a rock and roll band, a theatre show or a religion either way theatre in my opinion theatre is very rock and roll!.
I gained my infomation from the following books:-
1. THEATRE A CRASH COURSE, by Rob Graham, Watson-Guptill Publications,1999.
2. ROCKY HORROR FROM CONCEPT TO CULT, by Scott Michaels and David Evans, Santuary Publishing, 1995.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Julian Bryant - Monday, 14 January 2008, 05:28 PM
Taking it back to the Egyptians reminds me of Richard Schechner's notions about ritual -worth checking out. Also Artaud when it comes to the bloodthirsty stuff.
Rocky Horror is surely all about pastiche, playfulness and a little bit of carnival?
(BTW don't worry about qualifying with "in my opinion" - we know it is, you're writing!)
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Michelle Greer - Wednesday, 23 January 2008, 04:44 PM
I cant believe that Rocky Horror is just a piece of theatre thatis about pastiche, playfulness and a little bit of carnival beacuse it has a cult following, how many other theatre shows have audience members coming to watch the shows dressed as the characters from the show? and then be expected to 'join in' with the action as it goes, such as all getting up and out of their seats to do the time warp? or shouting out comments in the 'relevant' places through out the show, theses are cult fan dedicated to their cult threatre folling, also the name ROCKY HORROR suggests that it does definalty have a rock and roll name for itself!
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kieron Vanstone - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 03:45 PM
In answer to Robert Lepage's question, is Rock and Roll more exciting because it is more accessible. Eg. you buy a CD of the performance then go to experience it live. This does not happen in theatre.
k
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kieron Vanstone - Friday, 18 January 2008, 11:03 AM
What about Musicals? Most have a CD avaliable before the show even opens, and almost all plays have the text avaliable to read. Do the majority of people not go to see a show becuase there is something that they hope to enjoy about it?
but I do agree that Rock n' Roll is more exciting and this is becuase its part of a wider meduim of entertainment, and more accesible and affordable for all people.
Actually Aimee's post.
(Edited by Julian Bryant - original submission Thursday, 17 January 2008, 04:01 PM)
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Usha Padhiar - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 08:04 PM
In response to Kieron’s question I agree with the fact that musicals have CDs available and plays have texts. So isn’t this one way of making theatre accessible?
However, with musicals some have been films before they’ve made it to theatre, take ‘Dirty Dancing’ or Greese’. In saying this there has also been competitions, like ‘Greese Is The Word’ on ITV or ‘Any Dream Will Do’ on BBC1. Shows like this allow the public to get involved with theatre because they’re given the chance to choose who they’d like to see on stage. Already the films and shows itself have been accessed by many, how many times has 'Greese' been show on TV?! Doesn’t this make theatre just as accessible and exciting as Rock and Roll?
Ush
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by chrissy holloway - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:36 PM
I agree in some ways that putting these shows on tv is making theatre more accessible to the public, but it is also proving to be a huge advertising scheme in some ways.
If u think about the TV shows that are trying to find the stars of the West End, it is kind of defeating the point of having these Wesst End stars anyway, because they have been made famous through other media. Whereas most of the really successful stars that have come from the West End are individuals such as Elaine Page, who have made it soley because of the theatre industry. Alot of these TV shows are people picking the best singer, or the one who looks the prettiest in their costume, and may not neccessarily be willing to go and see the shows that they are being picked for.
Rock and Roll, however is accessible to everyone in the world through many different media sources, such as internet and TV, not only in the record shops, and the Theatre is a very individual style. It is not broadcast over the TV all the time, where as programmes such as Top of the Pops was promoting the rock and roll singles, and this is a way of ensuring that the public who wish to experience this atmosphere in the theatre are allowed to at their leisure and are not having it thrown on them through wild advertising and consumerism.
chrissy
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Aimee Hulme - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:49 PM
Yes, Shows like 'Grease is the Word' do make theatre more accesible but personally I think they degrade theatre and take away from people who train their whole lives for something which can be taken away by a simple TV show which is just there to make money.
Can Andrew Lloydd Webber not afford to produce his own shows? Yea he can, but the reason he develop such reality shows was to ensure that he makes money? Theatre can be so hit and miss, and he has proved this when he made his Phantom of the Opera into a blockbuster and he choose to produce it himself, and he made huge loss.
Also it makes talented actors like Lee Mead, have to audition and got through a difficult and lenghtly process just to get the part he longed it play. Even though he had trained at Theatre School in Musical theatre and has played numorious parts in the west end inculding Rauol in Phantom.
Then also in 2007 it was proven that the show didn't work becuase Connie Fisher the winner of 'How do you solve a problem like Maria?' after only a few weeks couldn't handle 8 shows a week and had to take time off, and is now being replaced by another girl from the competiton. How would you feel if you spent money every week for 8 weeks and you then paid £50 to see a show which that person wasn't in?
Also Both Connie and Lee have albums out, therefore does this not detract from theatre and focus on Music? Most People don't go to see the musical/theatre, they go to see the person they voted for.
The same with alot of commercial theatre in the west end, its all about celebrity, the only reason shows like 'Chicago' keep going is becuase they get in "Celebrities" (used loosley) to do a half assed job at something which could be amazing.
Therefore if we need reality shows to promote theatre, how come shows like Phantom and Le Mes can stay open for years without any need to have gimmicks.
So yes theatre is much more accesible, and I am the first person to think that theatre is exciting, but looking at society as a majority Rock n' Roll/Music is much more exciting because there is something for everyone.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Aimee Hulme - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:03 PM
Okay, sorry but just realised that Kieron was signed in on my computer, and i wrote a response which was from me and not him, (the one above Usha's).
Aimee smile
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kt Milne - Friday, 18 January 2008, 10:17 AM
Theatre and rock and roll are both exciting mediums, in that both events are about the show and therefore can be as "exciting" as you make it. However rock and roll is still seen as more accessable therefore more people see it and are "excited" by it. However with musical theatre turning to shows such as "We Will Rock You" and "Tonights The Night" I argue that the gap between them is being bridged and to say one is more exciting than the other is judging them both by out dated standards.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Julian Bryant - Friday, 18 January 2008, 12:40 PM
Interesting debate, but what we now need to do is to try to find theory expanations for the ideas you've all been exploring. Punk in particular seems to be relevant, in the rejection of formal authority relationship of the stage. Kt's identification of 'referential' musicals might be another example of teh postmodern in action, in its inherent quotation of other artworks.
Are (or do) these various shows trying to challenge notions of authorship, and of authority? In which case are they, consciously or not, echoing the thinking of people like Lyotard and Lacan?
BTW, with these questions, theyare more there to be explored rather than answered.
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Picture of Eleanor Bailey
Re: Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Eleanor Bailey - Friday, 18 January 2008, 01:00 PM
In regards to whether Rock and roll is considered more exciting than theatre I ask you to consider the different set ups of the two area’s of performance. A typical theatre audience goes and sits down, laughs and applauds at the appropriate moments and then leaves and there is a rigid structure that is adhered to which has changed little in centuries.
Whereas at a gig, you often stand, sing along, shout encouragement etc, who hasn’t been to a gig where at least one person has tried to get onto the stage and grab the mic from the singer!
Audience participation in the performance is actively encouraged often mandatory in many cases and there is much more room for freedom of expression at a music performance as you don’t feel self conscious for shouting or jumping around as the person next to you is doing exactly the same. The close proximity of the audience to the performer often makes the experience a far more tangible one as the performers are not set apart from the audience as they often are in theatre.
Although this is not always the case I think it is also important to think of who you would go and see these to areas of performance with? A rock and roll gig is something you would be far more likely to go and see with your piers whereas a big west end show is often a family event i.e. a birthday treat for a loved one. There is still this notion or even a stigma of formality attached with attending the theatre.
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Re: Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by john pullig - Monday, 21 January 2008, 09:16 PM
I have come across an interesting essay by Lance Olsen who teaches innovative fiction and fiction-writing at the University of Utah and serves as Chair of the Board of Directors at FC2, or Fiction Collective Two; founded in 1974, FC2 is one of America's best-known ongoing literary experiments and progressive art communities.
In it he suggests that just as the camera caused the impression artist to look for more than just a photographic recreation of an image, so films had the same effect with writers of the late 19 and early 20th century novelists. He goes on to say that for writers of the postmodernist era rock has had much the same effect. "....Something along the same lines seems to me to hold true in the second half of the twentieth century with respect to rock'n'roll. Several generations of postmodern writers - including the Beats, the Cyberpunks, and those associated with the Avant-Pop - have sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously responded to rock's ubiquitous presence in our culture by reinventing poetry and fiction"
It is a long but interesting article. Here is the link: http://www.griffith.edu.au/school/art/text/oct99/olsen.htm
If this theory is true for writers/novelists then why not for for the postmodernist playwrites? I am not suggesting that Elvis (Presley or Costello) has influenced Brecht or Bekett. But I do think that all 'arts' culture is linked and effects each part, one to another. Look back to the musical of the 60's and 70's 'Hair' with scenes containing nudity and drug-taking as well as a strong anti-war message at the height of the Vietnam conflict and the desecration of the American flag on stage. Some might say that these themes all had their roots on rock music. From Bob Dylan's protest songs (Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, Talkin' World War III Blues) to The Beatles (Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - LSD) and Jimi Hendrix there are common themes for sure but does one rely on another or or does art in whatever form reflect how society changes?
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by jessica davey - Wednesday, 23 January 2008, 05:05 PM
There are plans for a annual week each year for all opera and theatre in general to become free and accessible for anyone to see to encourage many that wouldnt haven prevoiusly been able to see theatre to have that access. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=507552&in_page_id=1770
It has been said that if the proposal goes ahead it would give artists stronger influence over British cultural life. The Government has already introduced free access to galleries and these proposed plans would remove admission prcies to all publicly-funded cultural organisations for a week each year to widen access. This being said, for those who regullary visit the theatre or opera would seize the oppotunity to get the first row seats for free and it wouldnt benefit those that it is intended to. Especially if you work in theatre or are a regular visitor you would have heard along the "grapevine" that this is happening at such a time and overlook those that it is intended for.
It is a big statement for the Government proposing that by making this change the british public can have access to culture they wouldnt normally have access to as you cant impose culture on people. Whilst many simply fit into this category of not having the necessary access to these cultural organistions , some do not want to know about these events simply because they are disinterested in the whole idea. You cant force people to experience culture in terms of theatre and this is why i feel some theatre venues suffer with low audeince members.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by john pullig - Friday, 18 January 2008, 05:11 PM
I think that we need to be clear about what we mean by 'exciting'. Looking at a dictionary I found the following definitions:
[adj] creating or arousing excitement : "an exciting account of her trip"
[adj] stimulating interest and discussion : "an exciting novel"
[v] arouse or elicit a feeling
and for 'excitment'
[n] the feeling of lively and cheerful joy : "he could hardly conceal his excitement when she agreed"
[n] the state of being emotionally aroused and worked up : "his face was flushed with excitement and his hands trembled"
[n] something that agitates and arouses : "he looked forward to the excitements of the day
It seems to me that Lepage's comment is limited to a view that people are likely to be more emotionally worked up at a concert than at a play. And this may be true. But the state of being worked up or 'excited' as Lepage puts it can and often tips over the edge into hysteria. This can be seen where an audience acts less as a collection of individual people with thier own minds under their own control and more as a collective body with a single mind. The hysteria builds up and there is little control.
There are other types of excitement and this is where Theatre scores over Rock. Take for example the stimulation of emotion in Theatre of Cruelty. The object is to shock the audience and create uncertainty about their world. This surely creates a different excitement to that of Rock but is just as valid.
As regards the definition of 'exciting' being to stimulate interest and discussion Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code has created mpore worldwide dicussion and more newspaper column inches than any Rock concert that I have heard of. It has created any number of books about the book and a High Court plagarism case and Appleal with millions of pounds at stake. This is surely exciting stuff but just a different type to that created by Rock.
Is one any more valid or better than the other?
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by anthony watson - Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 05:27 PM
ive just had a quick look at the powerpoint you surgested, and its interesting that he has made this comment as he seems to make theatre like this and in a way of bringing together all these difrent elements together that creates quite a interesting rock n roll style of theatre, even though he has created this style by bringing elements together it has started to rub off on theatre and there progression to make it just as exciteing
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by Julian Bryant - Wednesday, 9 January 2008, 01:00 PM
When he was here last year, Robert Lepage posed the question as to why theatre wasn't as exciting as rock and roll. For someone with as varied a career as his, this is quite a statement.
Postmodernism is an attempt to explore how power structures in society and performance have shifted since the 60's, and rock is part of that shift. Even our ideas of culture - or Culture - have shifted since then.
You might want to research what people have said postmodernism is; how it relates to Theatre, and to Rock music.
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This is me on the photo shoot day
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Michelle Greer - Sunday, 13 January 2008, 07:22 PM
With regards to robert Lepage's comment, I ask you to consider what was theatre was orinally used for in Egyption times, theatre was seen as an act of religion and a bloody one at that. Where as we would re-created battles in todays theatre, battles were created back then and when the enemy was defeated the 'actor' would be sacrificed (hence the term needing extras)
So, how does this fit in with rock and roll, well after some thought on this i looked into cult theatre, (as a cult can be seen close to a religion) i found some amazing examples my favourite being "The Rock Horror Picture Show" certainly a rock and roll piece of theatre with the cult song "TimeWarp" making the music charts after its release on film a true rock and roll legendary song still remembered by most today even if they do not know the orgins of the song.
Finally, i conclude to "why theatre wasn't as exciting as rock and roll" well in my opinon i belive it is and will always be, as people will always want to be entertained either by theatre or music etc and people will always want a following whether it be people to a rock and roll band, a theatre show or a religion either way theatre in my opinion theatre is very rock and roll!.
I gained my infomation from the following books:-
1. THEATRE A CRASH COURSE, by Rob Graham, Watson-Guptill Publications,1999.
2. ROCKY HORROR FROM CONCEPT TO CULT, by Scott Michaels and David Evans, Santuary Publishing, 1995.
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Picture of Julian Bryant
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Julian Bryant - Monday, 14 January 2008, 05:28 PM
Taking it back to the Egyptians reminds me of Richard Schechner's notions about ritual -worth checking out. Also Artaud when it comes to the bloodthirsty stuff.
Rocky Horror is surely all about pastiche, playfulness and a little bit of carnival?
(BTW don't worry about qualifying with "in my opinion" - we know it is, you're writing!)
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Michelle Greer - Wednesday, 23 January 2008, 04:44 PM
I cant believe that Rocky Horror is just a piece of theatre thatis about pastiche, playfulness and a little bit of carnival beacuse it has a cult following, how many other theatre shows have audience members coming to watch the shows dressed as the characters from the show? and then be expected to 'join in' with the action as it goes, such as all getting up and out of their seats to do the time warp? or shouting out comments in the 'relevant' places through out the show, theses are cult fan dedicated to their cult threatre folling, also the name ROCKY HORROR suggests that it does definalty have a rock and roll name for itself!
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Picture of Kieron Vanstone
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kieron Vanstone - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 03:45 PM
In answer to Robert Lepage's question, is Rock and Roll more exciting because it is more accessible. Eg. you buy a CD of the performance then go to experience it live. This does not happen in theatre.
k
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kieron Vanstone - Friday, 18 January 2008, 11:03 AM
What about Musicals? Most have a CD avaliable before the show even opens, and almost all plays have the text avaliable to read. Do the majority of people not go to see a show becuase there is something that they hope to enjoy about it?
but I do agree that Rock n' Roll is more exciting and this is becuase its part of a wider meduim of entertainment, and more accesible and affordable for all people.
Actually Aimee's post.
(Edited by Julian Bryant - original submission Thursday, 17 January 2008, 04:01 PM)
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Usha Padhiar - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 08:04 PM
In response to Kieron’s question I agree with the fact that musicals have CDs available and plays have texts. So isn’t this one way of making theatre accessible?
However, with musicals some have been films before they’ve made it to theatre, take ‘Dirty Dancing’ or Greese’. In saying this there has also been competitions, like ‘Greese Is The Word’ on ITV or ‘Any Dream Will Do’ on BBC1. Shows like this allow the public to get involved with theatre because they’re given the chance to choose who they’d like to see on stage. Already the films and shows itself have been accessed by many, how many times has 'Greese' been show on TV?! Doesn’t this make theatre just as accessible and exciting as Rock and Roll?
Ush
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by chrissy holloway - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:36 PM
I agree in some ways that putting these shows on tv is making theatre more accessible to the public, but it is also proving to be a huge advertising scheme in some ways.
If u think about the TV shows that are trying to find the stars of the West End, it is kind of defeating the point of having these Wesst End stars anyway, because they have been made famous through other media. Whereas most of the really successful stars that have come from the West End are individuals such as Elaine Page, who have made it soley because of the theatre industry. Alot of these TV shows are people picking the best singer, or the one who looks the prettiest in their costume, and may not neccessarily be willing to go and see the shows that they are being picked for.
Rock and Roll, however is accessible to everyone in the world through many different media sources, such as internet and TV, not only in the record shops, and the Theatre is a very individual style. It is not broadcast over the TV all the time, where as programmes such as Top of the Pops was promoting the rock and roll singles, and this is a way of ensuring that the public who wish to experience this atmosphere in the theatre are allowed to at their leisure and are not having it thrown on them through wild advertising and consumerism.
chrissy
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Aimee Hulme - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:49 PM
Yes, Shows like 'Grease is the Word' do make theatre more accesible but personally I think they degrade theatre and take away from people who train their whole lives for something which can be taken away by a simple TV show which is just there to make money.
Can Andrew Lloydd Webber not afford to produce his own shows? Yea he can, but the reason he develop such reality shows was to ensure that he makes money? Theatre can be so hit and miss, and he has proved this when he made his Phantom of the Opera into a blockbuster and he choose to produce it himself, and he made huge loss.
Also it makes talented actors like Lee Mead, have to audition and got through a difficult and lenghtly process just to get the part he longed it play. Even though he had trained at Theatre School in Musical theatre and has played numorious parts in the west end inculding Rauol in Phantom.
Then also in 2007 it was proven that the show didn't work becuase Connie Fisher the winner of 'How do you solve a problem like Maria?' after only a few weeks couldn't handle 8 shows a week and had to take time off, and is now being replaced by another girl from the competiton. How would you feel if you spent money every week for 8 weeks and you then paid £50 to see a show which that person wasn't in?
Also Both Connie and Lee have albums out, therefore does this not detract from theatre and focus on Music? Most People don't go to see the musical/theatre, they go to see the person they voted for.
The same with alot of commercial theatre in the west end, its all about celebrity, the only reason shows like 'Chicago' keep going is becuase they get in "Celebrities" (used loosley) to do a half assed job at something which could be amazing.
Therefore if we need reality shows to promote theatre, how come shows like Phantom and Le Mes can stay open for years without any need to have gimmicks.
So yes theatre is much more accesible, and I am the first person to think that theatre is exciting, but looking at society as a majority Rock n' Roll/Music is much more exciting because there is something for everyone.
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Picture of Aimee Hulme
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Aimee Hulme - Thursday, 17 January 2008, 10:03 PM
Okay, sorry but just realised that Kieron was signed in on my computer, and i wrote a response which was from me and not him, (the one above Usha's).
Aimee smile
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Picture of Kt Milne
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Kt Milne - Friday, 18 January 2008, 10:17 AM
Theatre and rock and roll are both exciting mediums, in that both events are about the show and therefore can be as "exciting" as you make it. However rock and roll is still seen as more accessable therefore more people see it and are "excited" by it. However with musical theatre turning to shows such as "We Will Rock You" and "Tonights The Night" I argue that the gap between them is being bridged and to say one is more exciting than the other is judging them both by out dated standards.
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Picture of Julian Bryant
Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Julian Bryant - Friday, 18 January 2008, 12:40 PM
Interesting debate, but what we now need to do is to try to find theory expanations for the ideas you've all been exploring. Punk in particular seems to be relevant, in the rejection of formal authority relationship of the stage. Kt's identification of 'referential' musicals might be another example of teh postmodern in action, in its inherent quotation of other artworks.
Are (or do) these various shows trying to challenge notions of authorship, and of authority? In which case are they, consciously or not, echoing the thinking of people like Lyotard and Lacan?
BTW, with these questions, theyare more there to be explored rather than answered.
Show parent | Edit | Split | Delete | Reply
Picture of Eleanor Bailey
Re: Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by Eleanor Bailey - Friday, 18 January 2008, 01:00 PM
In regards to whether Rock and roll is considered more exciting than theatre I ask you to consider the different set ups of the two area’s of performance. A typical theatre audience goes and sits down, laughs and applauds at the appropriate moments and then leaves and there is a rigid structure that is adhered to which has changed little in centuries.
Whereas at a gig, you often stand, sing along, shout encouragement etc, who hasn’t been to a gig where at least one person has tried to get onto the stage and grab the mic from the singer!
Audience participation in the performance is actively encouraged often mandatory in many cases and there is much more room for freedom of expression at a music performance as you don’t feel self conscious for shouting or jumping around as the person next to you is doing exactly the same. The close proximity of the audience to the performer often makes the experience a far more tangible one as the performers are not set apart from the audience as they often are in theatre.
Although this is not always the case I think it is also important to think of who you would go and see these to areas of performance with? A rock and roll gig is something you would be far more likely to go and see with your piers whereas a big west end show is often a family event i.e. a birthday treat for a loved one. There is still this notion or even a stigma of formality attached with attending the theatre.
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Picture of john pullig
Re: Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by john pullig - Monday, 21 January 2008, 09:16 PM
I have come across an interesting essay by Lance Olsen who teaches innovative fiction and fiction-writing at the University of Utah and serves as Chair of the Board of Directors at FC2, or Fiction Collective Two; founded in 1974, FC2 is one of America's best-known ongoing literary experiments and progressive art communities.
In it he suggests that just as the camera caused the impression artist to look for more than just a photographic recreation of an image, so films had the same effect with writers of the late 19 and early 20th century novelists. He goes on to say that for writers of the postmodernist era rock has had much the same effect. "....Something along the same lines seems to me to hold true in the second half of the twentieth century with respect to rock'n'roll. Several generations of postmodern writers - including the Beats, the Cyberpunks, and those associated with the Avant-Pop - have sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously responded to rock's ubiquitous presence in our culture by reinventing poetry and fiction"
It is a long but interesting article. Here is the link: http://www.griffith.edu.au/school/art/text/oct99/olsen.htm
If this theory is true for writers/novelists then why not for for the postmodernist playwrites? I am not suggesting that Elvis (Presley or Costello) has influenced Brecht or Bekett. But I do think that all 'arts' culture is linked and effects each part, one to another. Look back to the musical of the 60's and 70's 'Hair' with scenes containing nudity and drug-taking as well as a strong anti-war message at the height of the Vietnam conflict and the desecration of the American flag on stage. Some might say that these themes all had their roots on rock music. From Bob Dylan's protest songs (Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, Talkin' World War III Blues) to The Beatles (Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - LSD) and Jimi Hendrix there are common themes for sure but does one rely on another or or does art in whatever form reflect how society changes?
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by jessica davey - Wednesday, 23 January 2008, 05:05 PM
There are plans for a annual week each year for all opera and theatre in general to become free and accessible for anyone to see to encourage many that wouldnt haven prevoiusly been able to see theatre to have that access. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=507552&in_page_id=1770
It has been said that if the proposal goes ahead it would give artists stronger influence over British cultural life. The Government has already introduced free access to galleries and these proposed plans would remove admission prcies to all publicly-funded cultural organisations for a week each year to widen access. This being said, for those who regullary visit the theatre or opera would seize the oppotunity to get the first row seats for free and it wouldnt benefit those that it is intended to. Especially if you work in theatre or are a regular visitor you would have heard along the "grapevine" that this is happening at such a time and overlook those that it is intended for.
It is a big statement for the Government proposing that by making this change the british public can have access to culture they wouldnt normally have access to as you cant impose culture on people. Whilst many simply fit into this category of not having the necessary access to these cultural organistions , some do not want to know about these events simply because they are disinterested in the whole idea. You cant force people to experience culture in terms of theatre and this is why i feel some theatre venues suffer with low audeince members.
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by john pullig - Friday, 18 January 2008, 05:11 PM
I think that we need to be clear about what we mean by 'exciting'. Looking at a dictionary I found the following definitions:
[adj] creating or arousing excitement : "an exciting account of her trip"
[adj] stimulating interest and discussion : "an exciting novel"
[v] arouse or elicit a feeling
and for 'excitment'
[n] the feeling of lively and cheerful joy : "he could hardly conceal his excitement when she agreed"
[n] the state of being emotionally aroused and worked up : "his face was flushed with excitement and his hands trembled"
[n] something that agitates and arouses : "he looked forward to the excitements of the day
It seems to me that Lepage's comment is limited to a view that people are likely to be more emotionally worked up at a concert than at a play. And this may be true. But the state of being worked up or 'excited' as Lepage puts it can and often tips over the edge into hysteria. This can be seen where an audience acts less as a collection of individual people with thier own minds under their own control and more as a collective body with a single mind. The hysteria builds up and there is little control.
There are other types of excitement and this is where Theatre scores over Rock. Take for example the stimulation of emotion in Theatre of Cruelty. The object is to shock the audience and create uncertainty about their world. This surely creates a different excitement to that of Rock but is just as valid.
As regards the definition of 'exciting' being to stimulate interest and discussion Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code has created mpore worldwide dicussion and more newspaper column inches than any Rock concert that I have heard of. It has created any number of books about the book and a High Court plagarism case and Appleal with millions of pounds at stake. This is surely exciting stuff but just a different type to that created by Rock.
Is one any more valid or better than the other?
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Re: Robert Lepage and postmodernism
by anthony watson - Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 05:27 PM
ive just had a quick look at the powerpoint you surgested, and its interesting that he has made this comment as he seems to make theatre like this and in a way of bringing together all these difrent elements together that creates quite a interesting rock n roll style of theatre, even though he has created this style by bringing elements together it has started to rub off on theatre and there progression to make it just as exciteing
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